Last year we delayed any rule discussions. So I am assuming some things will be up for discussion this year. What is the process? Who do we submit a potential rule change to? How does it get determined what gets voted on? Just looking for the proper procedure to do this. Please Advise.
Since you suggested it, and most likely we won't be at the World Series. I think Victory's biggest rule topic would be Intake Manifolds, and how they are styled. You can argue, has to be original style, and how many original style Mopar cross rams does the group have ? Tom, your engine compartment looks like it would have back in 1963 ! Some other engine compartments, everything is raw aluminum, radiators, block, heads, intake and those lovely welded valve covers. Don't think the short tunnel rams like Jerry has, as long as it isn't above hood height is that offensive. Since we are running on an index, basically same as dial in bracket racing, who cares if it makes a car faster, you still have to pick a number and run it. I think we should keep 2 4bbls, but whatever. Some guys want to run Holleys. Basically a lot of Victory rules are trying to make the car look like it did back in the 1960's. If some guys could do it, they would have a Pro Stock with an old body on it. My two cents worth, but hey, we have a coin shortage now. Be safe and have fun at Cedar Falls Everybody !!
One thing you have to look at is our rules, like our constitution, has been around for a long time and is working pretty good. And if you want to change anything you have to have a pretty good reason. This should not be about how fast you are, but about how much fun it actually is.
On the intakes, we are pretty well defined already. If we were to change, say to original type only, that would really be an entire rules re-write as that would make at least 75% of the cars now out of the rules. So, we don't want to change like that, we don't want to start over.
As far as carb types, that affects Mopar guys more than any, and I have really yet to hear our current group complain about that.
So, I guess, with in the group, right now, what do you see as wrong? I guess I don't see anything.
Car count is going to be down this year, that is the way things are.
Something else to consider here, within another NSS group, there is a "class" of racers that have half of the rules of the rest of us, and that has NOT increased their car count. So, I don't think looser rules is going to help us either. Some of the cars in this class I'm talking about, could have never been in any NHRA or AHRA class and would have been relegated to running exhibition or match racing. In other words, they don't represent NSS at all.
There is an old saying, most of us have heard, "Be careful of what you wish for, it may come true". I could give you examples, but nope.
Carry on, have as much clean fun as you can, because that is what this should be about.
At Cedarfalls Raceway at the Mopar Max event I am looking to put a NSS race together with 8 or more cars. NMCA rules. This is a chance to race the Max Mopar classes along with a separate NSS race. This may be 2 NSS races, Saturday and Sunday. this was posted earlier, not by me.
a little food for thought ,seems like alot of people are against NMCA rules, but they are mostly excepted in most N/SS venues , why not have rules that are excepted thru out all our travels? then you don't have to worry if your car fits other groups.
Russ is correct, anytime there is a NSS race-(NMCA NSS Rules Apply) is on the flyer. Victory is a unigue group with their own rules and such, and that is a good thing. All Victory NSS cars can race in any NSS event. I race multiple NSS groups, and at times I get asked questions.
Tom is correct that when you enter the FX category rules change a lot.
Here are a few topics I get asked. Now it can get discussed.
The carb thing, can be discussed, and I am guessing the manifold thing would be the single 4 barrel, eh?
What ever happens in the discussion, I would hope the members would listen to a few of the oldest members of the NSS family and what they have seen over the years.
And, then, take that into consideration when voting. Without naming them, there is 4 NSS racers that should be heard from, some racing both sides of the Victory- NMCA NSS.
I think it interesting if you look at three NHRA classes that changed the rules all the time, mostly changes driven by the racers.
One is the hemi class that the Barracuda's and Darts raced in. Rule changes there resulted in an every year parts change that probably cost well over 500K a year to be competitive. That was 10 years ago, not sure if that is still true. But NOBODY raced that class without a huge budget.
Another was "Econo dragster class" which was meant to be an affordable dragster class 40 years ago. It lasted about 3-4 years and again became a rich man's class.
Then, how about Junior Dragsters, first powered by a $200 dollar Briggs and Straton, and now powered by $7K and up motors and throttle limited to 7.50.
None of these changes improved the original thought, all changed to something else.
My thoughts, and mine only. Lets bring some of this up at the next couple races we have too.
Everyone has opinions, so here is mine. - There should be a "consensus " on possible changes ie: more than 1 or 2 members asking for a rule change vote , and a few weeks prior to the World Series so people have a little time to think about it. - NOSTALGIA Super Stock. In the beginning of the rules, it states "Which Accurately represent those cars which raced in the Super Stock classes of the '60's .... ". The Multiple carb. rule was in NSCA and NMCA rules to make this class UNIQUE ( that's what attracted me to it in 1996. Saw both those associations loosen the rules to "increase car count ",which didn't happen.) The original rules also talked about "Full Bodied cars " which were the cars that raced in SS prior to the Camaro's and Mustangs . AMX's, Hemi Darts and Barracuda's were allowed in because they were SS cars produced by the Factory specifically for SS. ( 7's look like 8's and 9's wedges were also run etc. ) -Availability : Correct intake ( Cross Rams ) are available ( maybe not new , but neither were Chrysler Cross Rams when a lot of us entered this class, we had to find them , and we did. ) That arguement is getting really old. nowhere does it say that the parts have to new , inexpensive ( ask me what Hemi intakes cost ,and I found 4 of them in a matter of weeks, 4 years prior to them being re-introduced by Mopar ) and a phone call away. The commitment needs to be made the same as others have done . - My opinion of tunnel Rams has changed, I believe a TR could be modified to look "period Correct ", BUT I doubt anyone would spend the time and effort to modify it when older "Period Correct " manifolds are out there which can be modified easier. - The Nostalgia classes were looked upon as being somewhat "Historical " as to the "Look and Feel " . While the rules may not be perfect, they work , let's not dilute them to a point that they are unrecognizable as to the original intent. - Our rules allow our members cars to fit other organizations , but other organizations cars don't fit our rules, that tells me we are the leaders . Why would we want to change that ? I've been called a purist, well, go ahead. We don't have to make everyone happy. With the investments we have in our cars, what's a little added cost for a correct intake ? Either the commitment is there or it isn't.
By the way, the "Cross Rams " were added to the rules ( as accepted ) for non-mopars , This was a rule CLARIFICATION , NOT A CHANGE . The rules committee (and previous Director ) always understood that they were allowable, but as written regarding carb. makes caused confusion ,so it was corrected to eliminate the confusion.
ok we're opening a can of worms, so to speak, I've heard the words period correct , and purist so when did it change? the allowing of bigger intakes ie, the indy box intake etc. which is the intake of choice of most except for the mod man,instead of the factory crossram, raised the carbs to the point that all of a sudden now there making the hood scoops bigger so the carbs still fit under the hood and scoop, yes all my friend's run them , but are they are period correct? so I think a few other things should also be considered, but to a point! we're not talking about major changes that already have been made with no voting, ( I don't remember ever being asked to vote for oversize scoops), we're talking about intakes that fit under the hood and scoop , excluding sheet metal of course, is it really that big of a deal? sorry my 2 cents worth.
Russ, Yes it is a can of worms. The rules were written to try and keep them simple, generally a condensed version of the old NSCA rules prior to ( or between the time NMCA had an NSS class, then eliminated the class, then came back with the class, combined with NSCA, then separated , then Muscle Car reunions which led to the Victory series. So things morphed into some other things, but I'll say this, While the runners on a mod man from the plenum to the head look similar to the tunnel ram in question, the mod man has the runners coming off the sides not the bottom of the plenum , while it may not be perfectly "period correct ", it is a lot closer than the true tunnel rams that want to be used which were not used on SS cars in the time frame we're talking about. There is a height restriction on the scoops , and as far as I remember, it never changed. There are things that are considered to be with-in the spirit of the class and not specific like wheels. I don't think we want to get to a point to have guys running around with rulers measuring scoops . Where does the line get drawn ? Eventually the fun will be taken out of it. I have seen confusion between SS cars, Stockers, and Modified Production cars which were absorbed into SS when Mod. Prod. was eliminated which loosened SS rules in the 70's. I respect your opinion and consider you a friend. I also had the same opinion that you have until two weeks ago when I sat down and looked at the mod man and the tunnel ram pictures side by side. This was again looked at by the rules committee members and also the series Managers/ Directors ( 7 people ). These decisions affected friends of ours which made it especially hard , but, Members / Directors/ Rules committee members stepped up to try and find solutions by looking on line, making suggestions for mods. to new intakes and correcting rule language to clear up confusion which is what this really should be about.
I don't want to beat this to death, but want to clarify a few things so there are no misunderstandings. The Rules committee is final word, the involvement by the directors was discussion regarding perceived gray areas. My opinion is just that, my opinion. The reason the Managers/ Directors were involved was due to the confusion in the written rules , so the whole thing became intertwined. Also, the area of modification ( top of manifold ) was also brought up. Regarding the " unified rules ",That was tried a while ago , ( Victory would loose it's uniqueness ) didn't work. Just so you know, Victory was asked to participate in the Mopar Max deal, however, it fell between our ST. Louis race and Cordova which would have resulted in 3 weekends in a row. It was discussed and decided that was a bad idea, and way late in the game. There were also questions as to Mopar only or all makes . We're trying to do what is best for the group.
One last time , and I’m out of this thread, this conversation has gone on for many years. It is not a new idea or unique. Many have presented the idea in “ the interest of attracting more cars” - it’s been tried in many organizations, many times , and has never worked. Let’s be honest - tunnels are way cheaper and , utilized properly , are faster. They were never used in the period concerned on super stock cars - the argument that there is nothing else available is incorrect. The good scoop rule has been 5” forever , probably from the beginning of the class but I don’t remember for sure. The Indy intake , if you take the lid off is still a crossram. At one time, the rules stated the carbs could not be inline and mine are still staggered 1/8”. The rules also state the top can be modified for carb placement- another long standing rule- technically, that’s what Indy did. Right or wrong it was brought in by a major sponsor and one of the original participants. For the record, I don’t necessarily agree with all the rules but have been tasked with enforcing and preserving them. NSS was never intended to be a 100% representation of the 60’s- allowances were made in the beginning. It IS a unique class and has a long standing HERITAGE. As Jay said, diluting it is not likely to add counts and could very well lower them - think about those who spent the money to comply and their feelings about allowing things that were not allowed and cost cubic dollars and time to work. The intake on mine is an old Sox intake that took 2 years to sort out to the level it is. It was cheap when I got it because “it wouldn’t perform “ - now , if you can find one, they are 1400 and up before mods. Change one rule, and pretty soon another- I’ve seen it over and over- take the uniqueness out and you kill the class- I’ve said it many times,and it’s a fact- this is the longest standing , highest car count, most successful NSS class there has ever been- I caution all- change it to make it like others and you will see the counts decline- look at our counts compared to others
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Apr 8, 2020 17:18:50 GMT
bosspete: On behalf of "Just in Time Racing".we'd like to wish everyone in the Victory Family a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.Stay well and safe.. Look forward to first race of the 2020 season.Take Care All. BossPete.
Dec 25, 2019 19:48:11 GMT
bosspete: As the new year approaches,,it would be really nice to see more of our cars lettered up to present that Nostalgic race look from years ago.I think that we have more fun and present a better nostalgic product than any other group I've ever seen in the past.
Oct 21, 2019 17:03:05 GMT
Hollywood: A show of hands please, how many subscribe to Hemmings Muscle Machines? What are your thoughts about the Magazine? Like it? Don't like it? if you do like, what do like about it? Don't like it?
Sept 1, 2019 17:28:04 GMT
sportf: Hey BossPete, I agree with you. We are racers second, friends and a true gang first. See you all soon.
Aug 17, 2019 13:43:10 GMT
bosspete: Hey,,everyone,,,Victory is here because of all of you. Victory would not be without you. Us old guys have finally found a place to race the cars we love,,and have fun doing it. No nitrous,no big Egos,,just a driver and his car. Cordova Awaits us.
Aug 9, 2019 23:45:02 GMT
moparsteve: George & Susi I posted the get together at Rons this weekend It has the address and phone number if you need directions!
Mar 13, 2019 14:01:55 GMT
maxattac: We'll be there Friday and Saturday nights! Thanks!
Aug 10, 2018 20:13:40 GMT
moparsteve: Damon, Didn't get a message!
Feb 4, 2018 21:07:15 GMT
Hollywood: Hey Detroitman what kind of Mopar do you need that 489 case and gear for? I might have what your looking for.
Oct 21, 2017 17:31:39 GMT
detroitman: 8 3/4" pig assembly must be 489 case with tapered pinion, need to have 4.88 or 5.13 ratio with a spool. Or ill buy just the gears.
Oct 11, 2017 1:16:38 GMT
polarapirate: Hello fellow Victory racers, doe's anyone have a 440 good to go, maybe 500hp, you want to sell reasonable. My 440 is in poor shape. Hoping to be ready for August Gateway. Thank's !! George
Jul 13, 2017 12:29:17 GMT
polarapirate: Great racing with you guys for the first time, and thanks to everyone for the underhood help Friday night, Tom, Tommy, Stanley, and others !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 14, 2017 18:05:49 GMT
Hollywood: A tip of the cap to Tommy Morgan, Tommy thank you for your generosity and thoughtfulness.
May 8, 2017 11:41:02 GMT
polarapirate: My bad guys, should have said 600 cfm Eddys or 750's.
Apr 11, 2017 5:45:09 GMT
polarapirate: Adding info, 440, 906 heads, Cam? hydraulic, maybe .509 lift, headers, torq conv 4000 + -, 4.56 Dana, in 64 Dodge Polara. Would 750 Eddys be too much, or 650's too small? Would appreciate the advice. Thanks!!
Apr 11, 2017 5:11:06 GMT