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Post by rebelrouser on Jul 19, 2020 13:27:45 GMT
I think the main issue with car count is not hood scoops or intake manifolds, it is gray hair. The people that relate to 60's super stock cars most likely were alive in the 60's, and that equals gray hair, sorry but true. Victory has way more younger drivers than most nostalgia classes, which makes me happy. The class is doing something right to attract them, I think it has more to do with the friendly atmosphere, everybody getting along, the group meals, and maybe the fact that the rules don't change, you can still build a car relatively cheap and be competitive. I raced at two events where NSS cars and the Street Outlaw cars were both booked. The NSS pits had 30 to 40 old guys talking about how they really miss these old cars, the Street Outlaw pits had people ten deep in a circle around the pits, wanting to buy a T-shirt and get an autograph. Young people still dig drag racing, they just like wild fast, heads up, cars that cost what to build, at least $100,000? Back in the day they had a nostalgia pro class heads up for our style cars, what happened to it? It was great to watch, but money soon became a big issue to build one. Last PRI show I happened to eat lunch with two track owners, they said neither were going to schedule a nostalgia event in 2020, they both said the money was in no prep outlaw racing. The public is fickle, prone to fads. Why did NSS take off in the 90's? People lost interest for a while, but then remembered the good old days and wanted to bring them back. Can NSS survive the current fads?
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Post by bosspete on Jul 20, 2020 12:46:07 GMT
Instead of trying to play around with intake manifolds,,why don't people just try to run what they have on a number they can achieve,,cut good lights,,and try and beat the other racer?This is what racing is all about. If you run 10 flat,,run 10 flat,,or 11 flat or 12 flat. We all were having fun in the past with things just the way they were. There is an index to fit every car we have racing with us. That is what the attraction to be in Victory is all about. Yea some guys want to go as fast as they can,,but,,,,,you still have to cut that light and beat the other guy without breaking out. Is an intake manifold really going to change that?? We were attracted to the Victory group because victory stuck to the "Originality" of what super stock once was. No low 9's,,no 8.50's etc. It makes it fun for any of us..low buck or high buck. Don't destroy what we already have. We have a good group of racers,,and we do a good job as it is. Like someone else stated "Be careful what you wish for"..Take care everyone,,be safe,,stay healthy. Pete P-Just in Time Racing.
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Post by rumblefish on Jul 20, 2020 14:21:16 GMT
I totally agree with Jim and Pete , however, I don't believe that the tracks promote / advertise "Nostalgia " racing as much as The current trends, but do agree the interest is less in the Nostalgia classes due to our age . However, When we are brought in at larger shows ( World Series for example ) The younger people are amazed at what we do without "Power Adders " and Have been thanked numerous times for bringing out "Museum Pieces ". Maybe the promotors should promote a Mix at venues instead of "Cubby Holing " Nostalgia classes / Events . What was interesting , last year my car was shown on the local news Saturday morning of the "World Series " launching , that day there were more pictures taken of the car and people posing with it than were taken in 4 or 5 years. Maybe we need to spend a little more on " Glitz and Glitter " ie: Paint and Lettering , might help ? I'm looking into letting on mine. Just an opinion and food for thought.
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Post by bosspete on Jul 20, 2020 15:07:03 GMT
Now your on to something Jay!!! Bill,Julie and I have all said our "group" would look more nostalgic if we had more Lettering,or billboard designs like years ago. Clay and Rosie have it,,Jim Hag's has it,,we have it,and there's others that really "look the part" of what we are supposed to be representing. I know lots of the guys like their cars "clean" and without lettering or numbers,,but we're a Racing outfit,,not a bunch of over powered street cars you couldnt drive on the street if you had to.They have vinyl lettering you can have put on or do it yourself,,,I think it would really help out "Victory" image if we had more,,"Sox & Martin",Dandy Dick Landy" Mr. Norm",,you name it.(just an example.) Having the vintage well restored look is really nice, but the image we're supposed to be putting forth is we're the Good Old Drag Racers from the past . How about some names etc on the cars The kids really like it when they come through the Pits and search out the really "cool looking ones". This is something to work on that's simple and doesn't involve an intake manifold. Thanks."Just in Time Racing".
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Post by dragsterdick on Jul 23, 2020 16:14:37 GMT
Funny how quiet it gets when someone mentions lettering up the cars to really look like nostalgia race cars? So, only manifolds make the difference?
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Post by bosspete on Jul 24, 2020 17:04:37 GMT
Someone explain to me how the intake manifold that is in question is such an illegal piece.If it's a cast piece,,and has 2 4 barrel carbs on it,,and it's not a tunnel ram,,whats the problem with it. I understand how the Sheet metal ones can be a whole lot more efficient,,and can be built and flowed for optimum performance.The cast ones can be "Played with" just as well,to get a desired effect if you got deep enough pockets, and you understand enough about getting the right amount of air/fuel mix to each cylinder,,if they need it to run the best.But still,,the driver has to drive the car,,,not the intake manifold,,,so in my opinion,,there's more to this .So if anybody can inform me,,I'm all ears. Not trying to turn our world upside down.Just find some justification as to why Jerry can't have the manifold on an expensively built engine if it gets the job done and he doesn't burn the engine to the ground.We all have spent "quite a bit' to have our engines built. Just ask anyone who has a Hemi. They ain't cheap to build or repair. Engine and Cylinder temperatures are critical to having any longevity with that engine. Do some things wrong,,use the wrong parts,,and it won't be long until your Oiling down the lane your in. And that doesn't make anyone happy. Especially the guy who's car is now headed for the trailer and will need a teardown. anyway...The pros and cons on this manifold thing ,,Please Boss Pete
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Post by bosspete on Jul 24, 2020 20:51:11 GMT
Apparently touching on the wrong subjects isn't very popular. I thought that's the whole reason for the Forum.If that's the case,,why have the forum. To the unhappy imogee face,,,Have a nice day.
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Post by oldracer on Jul 25, 2020 1:05:17 GMT
Pete, finally someone else gets it, Jim is right , we're all old gray haired guys that like to have fun, the only new younger guys I see are son's and son in laws of some older guy that races, at least that's the case in my family an other's I've seen , why would you want an intake or carb keep someone from having fun racing if it meets your wants and needs , and it's my opinion it should be any cast , non sheet metal intake that fits under the hood and scoop (oversized or not). ya, ya, it wasn't that way back when , well we're not back when, and time's change, they don't need to change that much , just a little to keep this thing going. stick to the 2x4s etc. to keep us different. but allow a few changes to try and keep things going. again my 2cents
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Post by Hollywood on Jul 25, 2020 1:56:52 GMT
Russ I have to agree with you 110 percent. A lot has been said here over the last few weeks and like one of us said, look around, were all old guys with gray hair some are still lucky to have some but were all out here just trying to have a good time and live out the last years we have doing what we love. This is a sport that we can all trace back to when we were kids and we got old enough to pass from one side of the spectator fence to the participants side. Most of you have been doing this a lot, lot longer than I have and I know I'm awful happy to be racing you. I guess this manifold issue , from what I'm told has cost us the loss of one of our members , maybe more than one. I think a lot of you know who I'm talking about. If it's true, I'm deeply sorry to see him leave. Some have said were splitting hairs with the intake issue and others have said why can one manufacture run a manifold that looks an awful lot like the other manufacture and one is okay but the other not. Russ, like you said, 2 4 bbls is 2 4bbls , as long as it fits under the hood , is anyone really gonna call us out and say, that's not what they ran back then? And if they do, does it subtract from what we put on track. We have no electronics controlling our cars, there is still a driver, a gas pedal, and shifter handle and a index to run. Like a lot of you have said, it's just my two cents worth.
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Post by bosspete on Jul 26, 2020 15:08:43 GMT
Thanks Russ.I really hate seeing Victory lose people over something like this. I've been told Victory is nothing more than a Mopar show. We need the Fords Chevys and Pontiacs too.It's what makes the competition interesting,,instead of "oh there's another pair of Mopars".So if we have to "allow" somethings,,well sometimes change is good. And I ain't saying,,Full out 3 foot tunnel rams either. if a member is willing to make that manifold work,,and get 2 -4's on it,,,and it's under the scoop limit,,Who cares.Me personally,,,,,I'd like to see some more creative names and nostalgic Racing stuff on more of the cars. That's what really makes the Race interesting to see and watch.Let's hope for the best in this. This season's about finished. The virus saw to that. Hopefully we can start next season with a full schedule,,have "EVERYBODY" back healthy and ready to go. Take Care. Pete-Just in time Racing.
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Post by sportf on Jul 26, 2020 22:34:24 GMT
Gang, look around you. Everything you see, your house, your food, the streets you drive on, all created by cooperation with one another. This is what has made us civilized, rules and laws that allow us to cooperate.
This isn't about a manifold, its wether we have rules we follow or not. Should we allow a 12" slick, which is actually only 11.9" when a 10.50W is 11.2"? I mean, that is really not much difference. If this was the question at hand, it might be easier to see.
The rules we run under were set way back in, maybe '88? Been working so far.
This is a public forum, everybody can see this. Please keep this in mind.
carsplymouth@hotmail.com
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Post by detroitman on Dec 19, 2020 14:48:41 GMT
Russ, Yes it is a can of worms. The rules were written to try and keep them simple, generally a condensed version of the old NSCA rules prior to ( or between the time NMCA had an NSS class, then eliminated the class, then came back with the class, combined with NSCA, then separated , then Muscle Car reunions which led to the Victory series. So things morphed into some other things, but I'll say this, While the runners on a mod man from the plenum to the head look similar to the tunnel ram in question, the mod man has the runners coming off the sides not the bottom of the plenum , while it may not be perfectly "period correct ", it is a lot closer than the true tunnel rams that want to be used which were not used on SS cars in the time frame we're talking about. There is a height restriction on the scoops , and as far as I remember, it never changed. There are things that are considered to be with-in the spirit of the class and not specific like wheels. I don't think we want to get to a point to have guys running around with rulers measuring scoops . Where does the line get drawn ? Eventually the fun will be taken out of it. I have seen confusion between SS cars, Stockers, and Modified Production cars which were absorbed into SS when Mod. Prod. was eliminated which loosened SS rules in the 70's. I respect your opinion and consider you a friend. I also had the same opinion that you have until two weeks ago when I sat down and looked at the mod man and the tunnel ram pictures side by side. This was again looked at by the rules committee members and also the series Managers/ Directors ( 7 people ). These decisions affected friends of ours which made it especially hard , but, Members / Directors/ Rules committee members stepped up to try and find solutions by looking on line, making suggestions for mods. to new intakes and correcting rule language to clear up confusion which is what this really should be about.
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Post by detroitman on Dec 19, 2020 14:50:15 GMT
I don't want to beat this to death, but want to clarify a few things so there are no misunderstandings. The Rules committee is final word, the involvement by the directors was discussion regarding perceived gray areas. My opinion is just that, my opinion. The reason the Managers/ Directors were involved was due to the confusion in the written rules , so the whole thing became intertwined. Also, the area of modification ( top of manifold ) was also brought up. Regarding the " unified rules ",That was tried a while ago , ( Victory would loose it's uniqueness ) didn't work. Just so you know, Victory was asked to participate in the Mopar Max deal, however, it fell between our ST. Louis race and Cordova which would have resulted in 3 weekends in a row. It was discussed and decided that was a bad idea, and way late in the game. There were also questions as to Mopar only or all makes . We're trying to do what is best for the group.
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Post by detroitman on Dec 19, 2020 14:50:48 GMT
I don't want to beat this to death, but want to clarify a few things so there are no misunderstandings. The Rules committee is final word, the involvement by the directors was discussion regarding perceived gray areas. My opinion is just that, my opinion. The reason the Managers/ Directors were involved was due to the confusion in the written rules , so the whole thing became intertwined. Also, the area of modification ( top of manifold ) was also brought up. Regarding the " unified rules ",That was tried a while ago , ( Victory would loose it's uniqueness ) didn't work. Just so you know, Victory was asked to participate in the Mopar Max deal, however, it fell between our ST. Louis race and Cordova which would have resulted in 3 weekends in a row. It was discussed and decided that was a bad idea, and way late in the game. There were also questions as to Mopar only or all makes . We're trying to do what is best for the group.
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Post by detroitman on Dec 19, 2020 14:56:31 GMT
Well Rumble, maybe its time for a change where Mopar Max race would give the group more exposure, and perhaps they would offer a better deal than Cordova??
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