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Post by Hollywood on Jan 10, 2020 1:48:52 GMT
Since the 2008 recession, attendance and TV ratings have dropped precipitously. No matter how much promotion NHRA has tried, there are far fewer fans watching the sport both in-person and on TV today than back then. This is something I found on the "In my net " thursday Jan 9th 2020. It's just part of a column a sports writer wrote regarding NHRA moving forward in 2020 and beyond. The point of me putting this out there for all to see is simply this. St'Louis, aka Gateway did not want to sign us for the last race of the season because as I was told the lack of ticket sales at the gate. True or False? Not a big draw at the gate. I think we can connect the dots on this. Someone please tell me I'm wrong about this. There appears to be a lack of fans that want to come and watch us race. If this is true, why? I yield the floor to whoever would like to address this or make a comment.
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Post by rumblefish on Jan 10, 2020 3:56:52 GMT
Here's my opinion for what it's worth. The muscle car generation is ageing , this correlates to fewer cars and fewer fans, same thing as car shows, interest is waning. Older established events like Monster Mopar, the World Series etc. have people and families who come every year and the admission and food prices don't kill the bank account like a large NHRA event. I've watched the car counts ( alternates ) of the Pro Cars in National Dragster fall over the years, I'm sure cost contributes to this also. It is my understanding that the Promoter of the event at Gateway is not having that event simply because of cost and lack of return on investment, ie: car counts and spectators which in turn effects souvenirs, food sales etc. . This event did not get established, These tracks are businesses bottom line. Nascar is also having the issues.
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Post by oldracer on Jan 10, 2020 4:56:55 GMT
Boy , Bill you opened a can of worms,for me anyway, my take, have you been to a NMCA race lately? when you look at the no. of cars entered there an look at the stands there is hardly anyone there but the families etc. of the racers from what I've seen, it's been said we like to race in front of a crowd, is it really necessary ? the world is changing, everyone into this is getting older, sure there is some interest with some younger crowd but few and far between, it's tough for the younger one's to do this without help from us older ones, ie. my kids, Don B, Dennis S.Wally K. Bax family, Charlie K. etc. in the past Stanley and others. Don't know what the answer is but we need to go back to basic's , Can't we find a track to race at for sake of racing and not worrying about being part of a show so to speak, as long as we and the track can make out? I've seen plenty of bracket car's that could be N/ss cars with very little work, maybe if we races with or at a track with them some might be converted or made duel purpose. I guess I'm done now. hope no one thinks less of me for speaking out.
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Post by polarapirate on Jan 10, 2020 5:37:07 GMT
I don't know if Chris will be doing any announcing this year, but something Victory might want to consider is a full time announcer that knows drag racing, and our cars, and has a strong exciting voice, to announce our runs. Maybe family or friends that would want to do it. Make it more interesting and fun for spectators than some of the tracks usually have. Dan Beales did pretty good at Cordova. Somebody with a voice like friend Tom Gaines. We are basically a show during a race, I've had people come up to me asking when we are going to run because we are what they came to see. Unfortunately most either love old cars or hate them. The younger generation wants to see Pro Mods and the like. I quit bracket racing because I would rather run a neat old car against other neat old cars. I found my home. Don't care how many people are in the stands. I want to run my car, slow as it might be. Maybe some day it will grow up and carry the front wheels 60 feet. When I used to go to the US Nationals every year, my favorite class was Super Stock leaving with those front wheels in the air. I know some guys that like our group but just cannot give up the electric aids, tranny brake, solenoid shifter, and the boxes. Victory has many talented drivers that don't need all that BS, such as Dennis S., Tom H., Jim H., Russ, Clay, Dan B., and many more.
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Post by sportf on Jan 10, 2020 17:03:22 GMT
It is good to have opinions and to express them.
There is two kinds of events at a track, one that the track puts on and takes the risk, and one where a "promoter" rents the track and takes all the financial risk. In the latter, the track gets a fixed fee regardless of attendance (typically). At St. Louis in the fall, this was a promoter, Phil Painter, that put this on. And there just wasn't enough return to keep doing it.
Now for next year, we can all have an input as to where we want to go and when, we just need to communicate that with each other during the race meetings. But, as with any group, not everybody can be happy all the time, we just got to be as good as we can be.
Stay warm. Remember, there are only actually two seasons, race season, and getting to race season.
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Post by c5farmer on Jan 10, 2020 17:04:27 GMT
I have to agree with Russ. Spectator numbers should not be the deciding factor for us to race. Those days are gone or leaving because time and people's interests have changed. As long as we have enough support (cars and people) for fun, competitive racing we need to take advantage of any track that will let us race. Our car count has slowly declined since I started racing NSS 5 years ago. Remember 50-60 cars at Cordova or 40+ cars at Eddyville? I also agree that most tracks have several "old" bracket cars that could race with us, with a couple of rule changes. Might be exciting for a track to see some local racers take on the NSS regulars. The Ozark Mountain Super Shifters started out as older manual trans super stock cars and dwarfed into adding tube frame later models. It hasn't hurt there popularity or car count. Remember, our cars are around 50 year old...older than most of the "new" fans that come to races today.
We have raced at Gateway with very few spectators in the stands several times. The only big spectator races I recall racing at is the World Series and Night of Fire. How about looking for tracks that have spectator support on a weekly basis and give them a shot?
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Post by dragsterdick on Jan 10, 2020 17:16:09 GMT
I think it is time to allow ( using our basic rules, big block-multiple carbs), to invite Camaro’s,Mustangs and Novas into the group! I think we should start with Camaro’s-67-69?Mustangs -67-69 and Novas-66-67 !! Maybe keep the count to 2 of each only to start for now!! Russ is right when he said that some bracket guys may remove the electronics and come over? Might help our car count and create some more interest in our group to a new spectator crowd? They help pay a lot of the track expenses!! I know the right rules are not changing this season , but maybe they should a little? I don’t see a day down side at all and surely nothing to lose by trying!!! What do you think?
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Post by dragsterdick on Jan 10, 2020 17:17:04 GMT
I think it is time to allow ( using our basic rules, big block-multiple carbs), to invite Camaro’s,Mustangs and Novas into the group! I think we should start with Camaro’s-67-69?Mustangs -67-69 and Novas-66-67 !! Maybe keep the count to 2 of each only to start for now!! Russ is right when he said that some bracket guys may remove the electronics and come over? Might help our car count and create some more interest in our group to a new spectator crowd? They help pay a lot of the track expenses!! I know the right rules are not changing this season , but maybe they should a little? I don’t see a day down side at all and surely nothing to lose by trying!!! What do you think?
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Post by dragsterdick on Jan 10, 2020 17:19:11 GMT
Sorry for the double post? Tried to delete the second one and can’t ever?
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Post by polarapirate on Jan 10, 2020 21:02:26 GMT
Winter might be a good time to get everybody to write down what rule or rules they would like to see changed/modified and send it to an address, so it could be dealt with in the future. ESPECIALLY the guys that used to race with us and aren't now !! I talked with Mr. 409 at his shop, and his main problem is his new improved intake manifold is frowned upon, I didn't see it, but I understand it is a short tunnel ram looking 2 X 4, and right now Edelbrock quit making the inline 2X4 intake for Pontiacs that look like the Edelbrock Mopar CH 28 that I am running. Only new 2X4 intake for Pontiacs has legs, like a short tunnel ram. Both the intakes like Mr. 409's and the Pontiac's will fit under our legal hood height scoops. I know Jay and I had an intake manifold discussion at Cordova. If Mopar guys were all required to have factory style crossrams, how many would that knock out of Victory at $1700. each ? Kind of like the 460 Ford engine, and the 409 Chevy engine rules. I personally don't have a problem with the Mustang/Couger/Camaro/Firebird pony cars and Novas/Falcons as long as they look period correct. I mentioned some time back, might be good to put in our rules to voluntarily make our cars look old school with proper wheels and lettering, like a few of our cars have.
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Post by c5farmer on Jan 10, 2020 21:40:55 GMT
Since Polabear brought up the subject of intake manifolds, I will throw in my 5 cents:
1. The rule against a tunnel ram type intake for GM cars doesn't seem fair when Mopars can run the Modman intake which is described as a "mini tunnel ram" on their web site. Add Mike's carb spacer to the mod man and it is higher than some on the GM tunnel rams that fit under our hoods and is far from period correct looking.
2. The problem with 2x4 intakes for most nonmopars is availability and development. Most of our cars ran stock/superstock with single 4 barrel intakes, so no companies developed 2x4 intakes for them. Tunnel rams were developed for modified production and prostock, which allowed dual quads. The inline dual quad intakes that were produced were for the hot rodders driving on the streets.
3. Another thought about our appeal to fans is that they want to see Fords vs Chevys vs Plymouths vs Dodges, as they all have their loyalty brands. Not much excitement for them to watch a bunch of old Mopars beat up each other!
I received an email today from Craig Stepanek in Vinton Iowa. I know he has visited with several of you about the Victory Series. He is building a Chevy drag car to race with us and wanted to know if any of the rules changed because he doesn't like the 2x4 intakes that are available for Chevy engines. Why invest in an obsolete, inefficient intake?
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Post by sportf on Jan 10, 2020 22:27:03 GMT
The rules are froze for this year, so that is that. If you build to the current rules, I would doubt that you would EVER have to change to be compliant with our rules, or any NMCA rules, no matter how they might change (or not change).
I don't particularly like some of the mods done to some of our manifolds either as it makes it look like a tunnel ram, but it does fit the rules.
Rules are not fair or even. This goes for any rules about anything.
I think a good mix of makes is good for us as a group putting on a show. If I had no brand loyalty, I would build a Chevy, just more cost effective.
I would rather never change the rules we have, they have been working a long time. But I am only one.
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Post by moparsteve on Jan 11, 2020 16:02:56 GMT
One rule to change!I think would possibly help in getting more cars to join, Is dropping the FE rule for the fords! I know a couple of racers that would like to join us but they have the later big blocks in their cars! What difference does it make if it's an FE or later block Those parts are extremely hard to come by (ie) intakes for sure! After all none of us are running a true 426 ci or a 427 chev engine! Just keep the no Sheetmetal intakes! Just my 2 cents!
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Post by Fugly on Jan 12, 2020 2:04:34 GMT
I should keep my mouth shut, but WTH....there are intakes available (period ) for pretty much everything except buicks- Chevy xc96 crossram, Pontiac 6066, Chrysler STR15(on mine) or 14 for RB.....they can be made to work, (I’ve been 9.38 with likely one of the heaviest cars out there , with the dreaded 4 speed.....) ..are they cheap? No, Tunnel rams did not exist in super stock in the range we are supposed to represent,, diluting the class with pony cars has been tried several times by several organizations with dubious results. Constantly changing rules does not help someone trying to build a car and diluting makes the class less unique and IMO less of a draw for spectators. the class has to be sold as something different to get booked...its not supposed to be a beginner class, and if people think about it, I think most who are in it aspired to be there because its unique and special....I for one will find another place if the class is diluted /changed as others have tried and failed at...no reason to drag a crossed the country to do what I can do in my back yard...
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Post by oldracer on Jan 12, 2020 4:53:04 GMT
for the sake of rebuttal, an been around the block, not as many as most but not a younger one either, this intake thing is getting pretty funny, Damon I respect the heck out of you but not many people have your experience to modify and play with a old intake and make it work like you can, the tunnel ram's everyone are talking about aren't the kind you think about when you think tunnel ram, like the old days sticking through the hood with big old holleys for everyone to see, the one's i've seen they're talking about are lower profile type that would easily fit under the excepted hood scoops everyone is using. (that's another can of worms no one seems to talk about. oversized hemi and maxwedge scoops within the spirit of the rules which look out of place in an old guys opinion). I don't see a constantly changing the rules , just a few that just might help the car counts which seem to be dwindling. as far as the class having to be sold to get booked, I thought getting booked meant getting paid to show up like the nss inc. group. as far as not being a beginner's class, I thought that's why we have index's that go to 13.00 flat, how is someone new with limited budget suppose to get started with us,I was hoping we'd be looking for new younger guys to join. please don't think less me, but some things need to be said.
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